The Education Gadfly Show

On this week’s solo episode, Mike Petrilli explores a big question: What would it look like to define an evidence-based model for American elementary schools—and could AI help us get there? Drawing on his long view of school reform, he considers what most schools have in common, where they fall short, and whether a clearer, research-backed playbook could improve outcomes at scale. This is a work-in-progress idea, and Mike wants your feedback. Share your thoughts at mpetrilli [at] fordhaminstitute [dot]org. Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines new evidence on special education, finding that after students are identified for services, their achievement rebounds significantly—suggesting that individualized supports may boost learning more than previously understood. Recommended content: Both/and on test scores & school inspectionsFollow the Science to School: Evidence-based Practices for Elementary EducationAn ode to elementary schoolsSpecial Education Substantially Improves Learning: Evidence from Three StatesFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Jay Plasman of The Ohio State University joins the Education Gadfly Show to discuss Fordham’s latest report on industry-recognized credentials—and whether they actually deliver for students. As Ohio has pushed more high schoolers to earn these credentials, do they lead to higher earnings down the line, or unintentionally steer students away from college pathways? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines new evidence on goal-setting and commitment pledges—whether they help students follow through on their plans or, surprisingly, can backfire. Recommended content: College or Career Readiness? Postsecondary and Labor Market Outcomes for Ohio High School Students Earning Industry-Recognized CredentialsThe state of career-and-technical education in Ohio: An analysis of coursework, industry-recognized credentials, and work-based learningThe high school pathways that boost adult earningsI Promise to Work Hard: The Impact of a Non-Binding Commitment Pledge on Academic Performance Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Jean-Claude Brizard, president and CEO of Digital Promise, joins the Education Gadfly Show to discuss the promise—and the pitfalls—of artificial intelligence in education. Drawing on what he’s seen in classrooms abroad, Brizard makes the case that AI can elevate teaching and learning—if it’s used to strengthen pedagogy rather than replace it. But as schools experiment with new tools, how can they embrace innovation without undermining the foundational skills students still need? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern looks at new evidence on alternative schools in Chicago—how they affect enrollment, graduation, and even arrests—and what they mean for students’ chances of going to college. Recommended content: AI in education requires national strategyThe human stakes of AI gradingShould AI be used for teacher evaluation?The Expansion of Alternative Schools: Impact of Schools Targeting Lower Performing StudentsFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org Note:

Bibb Hubbard, founder and CEO of Learning Heroes, joins the Education Gadfly Show to discuss grade inflation and the disconnect between what parents think report cards are telling them and how students are actually performing. As families rely on grades and teacher feedback to understand student progress, can stronger school-family communication help give parents a more honest picture of how their children are doing? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern looks at new research on Chicago’s merit-based free community college program and what it suggests about college choice, degree attainment, and whether free tuition at two-year colleges steers students away from four-year success. Recommended content: B-flation | How Good Grades Can Sideline ParentsThe Engagement AdvantageFixing grade inflation via clear policies and cultural changeFixing grade inflation through incentives and transparencyThe Effect of Merit-Based Free Community CollegeFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Mike Petrilli takes a solo turn to tackle teacher diversity, a topic at the center of today’s debates over DEI. Should schools recruit teachers whose backgrounds reflect those of their students? What does the research say about how shared life experiences shape student outcomes? And how can schools promote diversity while maintaining high standards for academic excellence? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines new research on Arkansas’s LEARNS Act, which raised the state’s minimum teacher salary to $50,000, and what it reveals about teacher pay and retention. Recommended content: The Right Way to Boost Teacher DiversityCan left and right find middle ground on teacher diversity?In defense of teacher diversityRaising the Floor: Teacher Retention Effects of a Statewide Minimum Salary IncreaseFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Robin Lake, director of the Center on Reinventing Public Education, joins the Education Gadfly Show to discuss the rapid evolution of artificial intelligence and what it could mean for schools. As AI tools grow more powerful, do schools need to fundamentally rethink how they prepare students for the future of work? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern looks at evidence from New Jersey on whether raising teacher salaries improves student outcomes, highlighting research that links salary increases to gains in test scores, graduation rates, and college enrollment. Recommended content: Agentic AI and the Future of WorkAI-assisted learning stumbles on the evidenceWhat Happens When We Pay Our Teachers More? Evidence from New Jersey Public SchoolsRaising the Floor: Teacher Retention Effects of a Statewide Minimum Salary IncreaseFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Drew Bailey, professor at the University of California, Irvine, joins The Education Gadfly Show to discuss the fadeout effect across education interventions. Why do early treatment effects shrink over time, and what does that mean for judging program success, especially when test score gains diminish but long-term outcomes like graduation rates and earnings persist? We also debate the role of test scores in accountability, the evidence linking school value-added to real-world success, and what this all means for the role of testing in school choice initiatives. Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines new data on how states define “proficiency” in reading and math and what NAEP reveals about rigor, transparency, and the debate over standards. Recommended content: Why Do Most Education Interventions Fade Out Over Time?School Choice, Test Scores and Long-Term Outcomes: The Evidence Is AmbiguousReducing Inequality through Dynamic Complementarity: Evidence from Head Start and Public School SpendingA future for IES?Mapping State Proficiency Standards Onto the NAEP Scales Results From the 2022 NAEP Reading and Mathematics AssessmentsFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

Karen Vaites, founder of The Curriculum Insight Project, joins us to discuss the evolving debate over curriculum reviews and state adoption policies. As more states look to third-party evaluations to guide decisions—and some consider mandating state-approved lists—how can policymakers avoid making costly mistakes? Then on the Research Minute, Amber Northern examines new evidence on whether teacher effectiveness truly transfers when high-performing educators move into lower-achieving schools. Recommended content: Educators Were Sold a Story About Phonemic AwarenessWhat American Education Reformers Can Learn from EnglandIs Teacher Effectiveness Fully Portable? Evidence from the Random Assignment of Transfer IncentivesFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, Mike Petrilli goes solo to talk about grade inflation—what it means, how it’s changed over time, and why tougher grading standards help students learn more. He argues that easier grades don’t serve students well—and explores what states can do about it. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern shares new evidence from Texas showing that distance from public colleges—especially community colleges—strongly shapes whether students enroll in and complete college, with particularly stark effects for lower-income and Hispanic students. Recommended content: Grade Inflation in High Schools (2005–2016)Great Expectations: The Impact of Rigorous Grading Practices on Student Achievement“Equitable” Grading Through the Eyes of TeachersEasy A’s, lower pay: Grade inflation’s hidden damageDistance to degrees: How college proximity shapes students’ enrollment choices and attainment across race-ethnicity and socioeconomic statusFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re joined by Elliot Regenstein, partner at Foresight Law + Policy and author of Readiness: Preparing State Early Childhood Systems for a Brighter Future, to talk about early childhood education and care—and why state systems are so often fragmented and hard to navigate. We discuss who makes key decisions, why coordination is so difficult, and what it would take to build more coherent early childhood systems going forward. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern shares new evidence on achievement gaps across different types of schools, showing that inequality has grown fastest in traditional public schools, while charter schools show more positive trends over time. Recommended content: Readiness: Preparing State Early Childhood Systems for a Brighter FutureThe Best American School SystemThe Nation’s Achievement Inequality Report Card: An Assessment of Test Score and Equality Trends in Traditional Public, Charter, Catholic, and Department of Defense SchoolsFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re joined by Karin Chenoweth, founder of Democracy and Education and author of Schools that Succeed, to talk about what she’s learned from years of visiting successful classrooms, schools, and districts across the country. We explore a deceptively simple question: Why don’t educators, policymakers, and researchers spend more time studying success? Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern highlights new evidence from New York City showing that small public high schools significantly boost graduation rates and college enrollment, especially for disadvantaged students. Recommended content: Schools that SucceedLearning from greatness: The conversation continuesBest practices are the worstEffects of New York City’s small schools of choice on postsecondary degree attainment and employmentFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, we’re marking National School Choice Week with a conversation with Shelby Doyle of the National School Choice Awareness Foundation. We talk about why the movement emphasizes school choice rather than educational choice—and whether the growing focus on education savings accounts is a good development for the movement. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern breaks down new evidence on how disability identification varies by student family income, raising important questions about equity, access to services, and how schools classify and support students. Recommended content: National School Choice Week 2026Education savings accounts: Boffo or bonkers? | Episode 1002 of The Education Gadfly ShowEducational choice is giving new hope to Catholic schoolsSchool-based disability identification varies by student family incomeMinorities Are disproportionately underrepresented in special educationFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week on The Education Gadfly Show, Mike Petrilli goes solo. After recently playing ESA skeptic at an international school choice conference, Mike walks through where he now stands on Education Savings Accounts—laying out the strongest arguments in their favor and explaining why he’s increasingly unconvinced the tradeoffs are worth it. Then, on the Research Minute, Amber Northern highlights new research using Michigan data to examine what happens when students with disabilities switch from traditional public schools to charter schools, focusing on changes in attendance and academic outcomes. Recommended content: Joyful classrooms, but zero public transparency: Inside an ESA micro-school | Episode 987 of The Education Gadfly ShowRethinking ESA policy designHow Do Charter Schools Serve Students with Disabilities? Lessons from MichiganFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, we’re joined by Liz Cohen, vice president of policy at 50CAN, to discuss her book, The Future of Tutoring. Mike and David ask her some tough questions on whether tutoring is worth the investment, and she provides some excellent answers. Then on the Research Minute, Amber highlights new evidence showing that students’ family background plays a key role not just in college major choice, but also in who goes on to graduate school and how earnings unfold over time. Recommended content: The Future of Tutoring, Lessons from 10,000 School District Tutoring InitiativesSCHOOLED: Should tutoring play a big role in America’s schools going forward?The narrow path to do it right: Lessons from vaccine making for high-dosage tutoringFamily Background and College Major Choice: Evidence on Major Earnings GrowthFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, we’re marking a major milestone—Episode 1,000 of The Education Gadfly Show. Instead of focusing on a single topic, we’re branching out for a big-picture conversation about the state of education policy—past, present, and future—with Rick Hess and Tom Loveless, the original co-host of the show and its very first guest. In particular, we wonder whether we were too pessimistic back in the No Child Left Behind era, why education outcomes and other social indicators turned south in the 2010s, and how to kick start progress again. Then, on the Research Minute, we’re thrilled to welcome Amber Northern back to the show after a long hiatus, as she reflects on what education research has taught us since we started podcasting in 2006—and how its use by policymakers has evolved. Recommended content: SCHOOLED: Learning from Rod Paige, Jim Hunt, and Lou GerstnerNow’s a perfect time to catch up on episodes you may have missed. From advanced education and measuring school quality to reducing chronic absenteeism, you can find past episodes here: https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/resource-types/podcast Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show in 2026? We would love to hear them. Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, Mike Petrilli looks back at the highs and lows of education reform in 2025 as we wrap up our final episode of the year. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith closes things out with a countdown of his top five studies of 2025—plus one bonus pick. Recommended content: Wonkathon 2025: What will make science of reading laws succeed?2025 EddiesWas 2025 a good year for education reform?Have you subscribed to Schooled? Don’t miss out on the education reform community’s hot takes! Click the link below: https://schooledbymikepetrilli.substack.com/ David’s Top Research Minutes of 2025 5. Gender Gaps in the Early Grades: Questioning the Narrative that Schools are Poorly Suited to Young Boys Featured in Episode 9884. How Test Optional Policies in College Admissions Disproportionately Harm High-Achieving Applicants from Disadvantaged Backgrounds Featured in Episode 9553. When Decentralization Works: Leadership, Local Needs, and Student Achievement Featured in Episode 9852. The Effects of Universal School Vouchers on Private School Tuition and Enrollment: A National Analysis Featured in Episode 9861. Who Wants to Be a Teacher in America? Featured in Episode 992Bonus: The Impact of Cell Phone Bans in Schools: Evidence From Florida Cutting the cord: Early evidence on cellphone policy implementation-- Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org Share Subscribe now

This week, we’re joined by Matt Barnum, Chalkbeat’s Ideas editor, to unpack whether college enrollment is truly declining—or whether the national narrative has gotten ahead of the data. Then, on the Research Minute, Fordham’s new national research manager Brian Fitzpatrick highlights evidence from D.C. Public Schools showing that teacher monitoring improves instruction and student outcomes—especially for teachers under pressure to raise test scores. Recommended content: Is college enrollment really plummeting?It’s Too Early to Write Off College DegreesDoes Monitoring Change Teacher Pedagogy and Student Outcomes?-- Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, we’re joined by Wonkathon winner Eric Tucker—CEO and president of The Study Group—to talk about his first-place entry on what it will take for the science of reading laws to succeed. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith highlights a study showing how much valuable information is lost when individual test questions are collapsed into a single score—and why states could produce better value-added measures by using the rich data they already collect. Recommended content: Science of reading 2.0: Assessment in the service of learning as the backbone of science-powered reading improvementWonkathon 2025: What will make science of reading laws succeed?Do Test Scores Misrepresent Test Results? An Item-by-Item Analysis -- Don’t miss our December 4 webinar, Implementation Is Where It’s At: What’s Next for the Science of Reading?, happening at 3:00 p.m. ET. Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, Mike Petrilli returns for a solo episode to dig into artificial intelligence—not classroom tools or teaching tips, but the big-picture implications of AI for what students need to learn as work, citizenship, and even human flourishing rapidly evolve. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith highlights a study linking the recent rise in child labor violations to declining school attendance—especially among Black youth and students living on farms. Recommended content: A “Zero-Based Budgeting” Approach for High School Course Requirements in the Age of AIThe illusion of learning: The danger of artificial intelligence for educationAI Will Transform The Workplace. Will Education Keep Up?Contemporary Child Labor and Declining School Attendance in the U.S-- Feedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org

This week, we’re joined by longtime special education advocate Elizabeth Yancy Bostic to discuss what could happen for students with disabilities if federal oversight and enforcement of IDEA are scaled back. Drawing on more than two decades of experience supporting families, including her own, as they navigate services, Elizabeth explains why strong oversight matters and what is at risk for students and districts when those safeguards erode. Then, on the Research Minute, David Griffith shares a study from Sweden that tracks the long-term outcomes of students attending for-profit versus nonprofit charter high schools. Recommended content: ‘Educational exile’: How Trump’s layoffs threaten students with disabilitiesCRPE on special education: Great diagnosis, wrong prescriptionSchooling for Profit: Long-run Effects of Private Providers in Public EducationFeedback Welcome: Have ideas for improving our show? Send them to thegadfly@fordhaminstitute.org