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Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay pour one out for MTV’s Catfish, which was recently cancelled by MTV after 9 seasons and 12 years. Back in 2010, Nev Schulman was the subject of the Catfish documentary, which revealed the heartbreaking truth about a woman he fell in love with online. The documentary helped coin the internet phenomenon of people creating fake personas to manipulate, extort, or trick others online. However, instead of scamming for money, the protagonists of MTV’s Catfish were coerced into emotional relationships that turned their rom-coms into horror films. With Catfish leaving the airwaves, what has changed about the show (and the internet) since its inception? And why couldn’t the show keep up with a scam culture that is more advanced than ever before? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you’re getting out of an Uber, Tesla’s unintuitive door handle can embarrass you. In an emergency, getting out of the car quickly can be the difference between life and death. Guest: Dana Hull, Bloomberg News reporter covering Tesla and Elon Musk Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Spitfire News writer Kat Tenbarge to discuss how reactions to Charlie Kirk’s death are prompting us to reexamine free speech. In her piece, “Is anyone going to defend free speech online?” she explains how this right has long been under threat. From legal challenges to biased algorithms, the internet is being censored right before our eyes—but there are still ways we can fight back. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why would Donald Trump rush to announce that Tylenol is a potential cause of autism, a claim unsupported by the research? Guest: Dan Diamond, White House reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell, and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay break down the drama between Vlogbrothers star Hank Green and the online knitting community. Earlier this month, Green posted an educational SciShow episode about the knitting community’s contribution to physics. What the SciShow team didn’t expect were almost 30-minute long reaction videos and accusations of belittling and misogyny. This saga has spurred apology TikToks, vows to knit simple socks, and a bigger discussion about how an offline pastime became one of the most drama-filled communities online. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you’re hunting for a job, the odds are increasingly likely you’ll have an interview with an artificial intelligence “recruiter.” And why not? It’s also increasingly likely you’ll be working with A.I. anyway. Guest: Danielle Abril, technology-in-the-workplace reporter for the Washington Post. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by sociologist and content creator Josh Lora, who goes by @tellthebeees on TikTok and Substack. In his viral piece, “The Mainstreaming of Loserdom,” Lora explores how a generation of people is becoming proudly anti-social, often in favor of staying home on their phones. While less and less people may be partying, they’re not exactly happy about it. Are we doomed to doomscroll, or can we fight for our right to party again? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the Charlie Kirk murder demonstrated, law enforcement, the government, and media all need more internet fluency. But their reactions in the wake of the murder don’t seem to be moving towards a better understanding. Guest: Ryan Broderick, reporter on online culture, author of the newsletter Garbage Day. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by Slate senior writer Ben Mathis-Lilley to say goodbye after eleven years at Slate. Ben was responsible for iconic stories like “Wouldn’t It Be Nice to Get Knocked Out Cold With a Shovel for Exactly Six Weeks and Five Days?”, and is known as the “funniest person in Slack” despite spending his days reporting on our terrifying political climate. How does Ben stay sane and positive online when the internet is engulfed with bad news? One thing’s for certain: It’s not in his University of Michigan football Discord. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this Money Talks: Elizabeth Spiers is joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Gary Rivlin to discuss his book AI Valley, a deep dive into the Silicon Valley companies that are competing to create the best–and most profitable–AI model. Gary has been covering the tech world for decades and has seen the major players in this arms race evolve over that time. He discusses the perspectives of the companies competing for AI superiority, what we should and shouldn’t be worried about when it comes to this technology, and how he sees the AI boom playing out. Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After their daughter committed suicide, they found her ChatGPT log—and where artificial intelligence helped her write her suicide note. Guest: Laura Reiley, writer for the Cornell Chronicle. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by writer Virgie Tovar, whose latest podcast, GLP-1 Truth Serum, explores the predatory nature of GLP-1 marketing, and companies’ attempts to target plus-size creators. But #BodyPositivity was getting backlash long before these new weight loss drugs became trendy, and now social media has gone from a safe space to a minefield. Is #BodyPositivity really gone for good? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Graphic, violent videos like the shooting of right-wing pundit Charlie Kirk circulate across social media moments after they happen, finding an audience even among people who have made no effort to seek them out. Guest: Craig Silverman, journalist and cofounder of Indicator. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim dive into the online conversations surrounding recent Saturday Night Live cast announcements. With departing fan favorites (such as Heidi Gardner) come the arrival of new talent, and for the past few years, SNL has been sourcing their talent from your For You Page. From TikTok-prominent comedian Veronika Slowikowska to Dropout regular Jeremy Culhane, what does it mean when internet comedians step into Studio 8H? Do they need SNL, or does SNL need them more? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

An Inflation Reduction Act subsidy for electric vehicles is being shut down by the Trump administration at the end of September, and automakers are preparing for sales of EVs to slow. Can this nascent industry survive? Guest: ⁠Ryan Felton⁠, reporter covering the automotive industry for the Wall Street Journal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Spitfire News writer Kat Tenbarge, who came to the defense of the Gaylor fandom (people who believe Taylor Swift is secretly queer) after they were accused of “crashing out” in light of her engagement to Travis Kelce. But who are the Gaylors, really? And why are they always the butt of the joke? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve been told that artificial intelligence can write, code, generate images—it can do everything…except feasibly turn a profit. But investing in A.I. has nevertheless become a pillar of the U.S. economy. Where is this leading us? Guest: Ed Zitron, author of the newsletter Where’s Your Ed At and host of the podcast Better Offline. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay talk about the backlash surrounding The Cutting Room Floor, a fashion podcast you may know from its Leandra Medine Cohen episode or its viral Steve Madden interview. Last week, host and creator Recho Omondi went on TikTok to hire a full-time staffer who would be an office administrator, bookings coordinator, and personal assistant. Fans were intrigued until she dropped that this role would pay a salary of $55,000 with no healthcare benefits. TikTok reacted strongly and immediately, taking issue with the low salary and bringing up the privileged candidate who could afford to take a job like this in New York City. Omondi responded by going on TikTok Live and posting a short Patreon episode she titled “$55k Gate,” but doubling down seemed to triple the discourse. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A24 rose from “small budget indie movie studio” to “one of the most respected brands in cinema” on a reputation for treating filmmakers like auteurs. But as the studio is growing and exploring how to integrate artificial intelligence, it’s at odds with some of the very directors who helped A24 establish itself. Guest: Alex Barasch, culture editor at the New Yorker Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week: Fed governor Lisa Cook is suing the Trump administration over her dismissal. Felix Salmon, Elizabeth Spiers, and Emily Peck, along with guest Kashmir Hill of The New York Times, discuss the weak fraud case being used to oust the Biden-appointed Fed governor and its significance in the fight to preserve the independence of the Federal Reserve. Then, Kashmir goes in depth on the many stories she’s reported on lately of people forming intense relationships with AI chatbots that lead to dire consequences including psychosis and death. She and the hosts discuss the role of this new technology in our society, the unknowable consequences of its unchecked ubiquity, and what can be done to protect users from potential dangers. From the Numbers Round: Emily’s Birthday Pancakes PLEASE NOTE: There is discussion of suicide in this episode. If you are in need of help, 988 is the three-digit, nationwide phone number to connect directly to the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. Text, call, or chat 988. In the Slate Plus episode: Big Money on Taylor & Travis Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices