Main Justice

In the wake of Viktor Orbán's election loss in Hungary—an autocratic leader backed by both Vladamir Putin and Donald Trump—Mary and Andrew call on an expert to give context to Peter Magyar’s surprising win: Princeton Professor Kim Lane Scheppele. Kim sheds some light on what led to this moment in Hungary, what it means for Hungarians and the EU moving forward, and what lessons the US can apply here at home. From there, the co-hosts move to a concerning opinion from the Office of Legal Counsel declaring the Presidential Records Act unconstitutional on its face, suggesting that Trump would no longer have to comply with the federal law. Mary and Andrew align on the significance of preserving these archives, before heading to what amounts to, in Mary’s words: “a bunch of garbage”out of the DOJ. On the list: Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche’s “I love you, Sir” press conference, the firing of immigration judges for ruling in high-profile cases in a way that was unfavorable to the President, and the DOJ’s investigation into Cassidy Hutchinson, a former White House aide, about whether she lied to Congress around the events of January 6th. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There’s a lot to unpack this week, not least of which being the President’s open suggestion of committing war crimes against Iran. Mary and Andrew begin by underscoring the Geneva Conventions stipulation limiting the use of force in wartime to military targets – not civilian ones. Then, a major shakeup at the Department of Justice: Attorney General Pam Bondi is out. Andrew compares her ouster to Trump’s firing of Jeff Sessions in his first term, and how the “sycophantic” nature of her allegiance to Trump did not save her job. Next, they turn to last week's oral arguments before the Supreme Court over birthright citizenship. Mary, who is steeped in the case, came away thinking that “the solicitor general has a much greater hill to climb” to convince a majority of Justices to uphold Trump’s executive order at issue. Last up, the co-hosts look at another of Trump’s EO’s being challenged that would restrict mail-in voting, despite defending his own use of voting by mail in Florida's Special Election in late March. This podcast is also available on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: When War Crimes Rhetoric Becomes Battlefield Reality: The Slippery Slope to Total War on IranThe embarrassing lesson of Pam Bondi’s confirmation hearing.ENSURING CITIZENSHIP VERIFICATION AND INTEGRITY IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

While much of the news is rightfully focused on the ongoing war with Iran, Mary and Andrew pull the threads on some consequential legal news that’s not getting as much attention. They start with the Justice Department’s settlement with Michael Flynn, paying out $1.25 million over his claim that he was wrongly prosecuted for making false statements to federal agents. And as Mary points out in her recent MS NOW op-ed, this settlement could set a dangerous precedent, by encouraging others “to seek similar windfalls” that support Trump’s efforts to rewrite history. Next, they unpack a case brought by Minnesota against the DOJ and DHS for blocking state investigators from accessing evidence in the Renee Good, Alex Pretti, and Julio Sosa-Celis shootings. And last up, the co-hosts break down a disastrous error the Justice Department admitted to this week, using an incorrect written policy to defend actions resulting in a number of arrests at immigration courthouses, as people voluntarily appeared for their immigration proceedings. You can also find us on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Further reading: Trump’s settlement to Michael Flynn could set a dangerous precedent.Anthropic PBC v. U.S. Department of WarHEREHERE Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Amid an unrelenting news cycle, one story really hit hard for both Mary and Andrew this week: the passing of former FBI Director Robert Mueller. Both hosts worked with him: Mary in the DC US Attorney’s Office; Andrew as FBI Special Counsel, General Counsel, and ultimately, as a top prosecutor in Mueller’s 2016 Special Counsel investigation into Russian election interference. They reflect on Mueller’s life and legacy being one dedicated topublic service, which, in Andrew’s accounting, “wasn't just a calling, it was a privilege.” Next, they move to a win for journalism and freedom of the press: Judge Paul Friedman’s decision in the case brought by the New York Times against the Pentagon regarding press access. And lastly, Mary and Andrew reviewMonday’s Supreme Court oral arguments in a case centered on whether mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day should be counted. The co-hosts read the tea leaves on the merits the justices seem to be eyeing and what it could mean for midterm voting this fall. And, a big thank you to listeners as Main Justice celebrates it’s 3-year anniversary. Starting today, you can also find us on YouTube at ms.now/mainjustice. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last week, Judge James Boasberg checked in the Justice Department by quashing two subpoenas against Federal Reserve Board Chair Jerome Powell, intended to pressure him "into voting for lower interest rates or resigning.” Finding “essentially zero evidence” of criminal behavior, Mary and Andrew explain how these subpoenas were issued as retribution and retaliation against Powell, as Boasberg cited over 100 statements that the president and his deputies made attacking him. Next, the co-hosts dig into the disciplinary proceedings against Trump’s pardon attorney Ed Martin, who, while serving as DC’s interim U.S. Attorney, pressured Georgetown Law School to change its curriculum. Last on the agenda, Mary and Andrew highlight the case that AI firm Anthropic filed against the Defense Department over being blacklisted. The case is centered around the Pentagon labeling the AI firm a “supply chain risk” after they asked the Pentagon not to use their “Claude” AI technology to do two things: “deploy lethal autonomous warfare without human oversight” and use it for “mass surveillance of Americans.” Further reading: Complaint For Declaratory And Injunctive ReliefReview of State Bar Complaints and Allegations Against Department of Justice Attorneys Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today's episode begins with a breakdown of the Justice Department’s about-face on four cases brought after Trump targeted several law firms through executive action. As Mary and Andrew discussed last week – they initially dropped their appeal of the decisions against sanctioning these firms, only to reverse course the next day, topped off with a new court filing Friday appealing the rulings. Next, the co-hosts review a pair of decisions: one out of Minnesota's district court concerning the state’s immigration surge, which determined the stopping and subsequent arrests of the case’s plaintiffs was a result of racial profiling. The second decision comes from U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth, who ruled Kari Lake’s oversight of Voice of America unlawful and illegitimate. Last up, Mary and Andrew detail Attorney General Pam’s Bondi’s proposed rule that would put any state complaint against a justice department lawyer on hold while the DOJ reviews it, essentially giving the department the power to hold these indefinitely if they so choose. Further reading: What’s exposed by the Justice Department’s reversal on Trump’s campaign against law firms.Review of State Bar Complaints and Allegations Against Department of Justice Attorneys Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Initial shock has given way to grave concerns as the US and Israel’s joint attack on Iran continue, stepping both countries into a war without a clear goal, end date or exit strategy. To help explain where congressional powers lie and the limits of executive authority, Mary and Andrew call upon Tess Bridgeman, international law expert and Co-Editor-in-Chief of "Just Security”. Tess stakes out the scope of the 1973 War Powers Resolution, and why Congress is meant to be the body that decides if, and when the US commits to armed conflict with another nation state. Then, Mary and Andrew turn focus to a few immigration updates, as more judges chastise the government for continually violating court orders, and a Columbia student is detained by ICE under false pretenses. Last up, the co-hosts turn to the decision in the case involving whether a journalist’s devices seized while executing a search warrant could be searched. Plus: the Trump administration’s decision to stand down on defending Trump’s sanctions against law firms— only to do a seeming about face the next day. Further reading: Top Questions the Trump Administration Needs to Answer on War with IranSouthern District of West VirginiaLiar’s Kingdom: How to Stop Trump’s Deceit and Save America Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last week, the Supreme Court struck down President Trump's expansive tariffs, ruling that they exceeded the authority given to him by Congress. The 6-3 decision saw conservative Justices Gorsuch, Coney Barrett, and Chief Justice Roberts align with the court’s three liberal justices, though as Mary and Andrew explain, through different pathways: the conservative justices using the “major questions doctrine” as their guiding principle, while the liberal justices arrived at the same result through statutory interpretation and good ‘ole “common sense.” The co-hosts spend most of this episode walking through key parts of the ruling, noting Justice Gorsuch’s opinion that the legislative process ought to reflect the will of elected representatives, “not just that of one faction or man.” Then, Mary and Andrew turn to a significant ruling against ICE in West Virginia, where a federal judge admonished agents for wearing masks and using unmarked cars, a presence akin to a “secret police force." And last up, a scathing review of Judge Eileen Cannon’s decision not to release Jack Smith’s report in the classified documents case. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last week, a grand jury refused to indict six Democratic lawmakers over a video they made addressing service members’ duty to refuse illegal orders. Mary and Andrew hold little back as they discuss the government’s attempt to chill free speech and persecute political foes. In an adjacent case, they review Judge Richard Leon’s decision to block Secretary Pete Hegseth from demoting Senator Mark Kelly over the video, saying it “trampled on Senator Kelly's First Amendment freedoms.” The co-hosts then dig into the unsealed Fulton County affidavit and what it shows about the basis of the administration's 2020 election fraud claims, before concluding with a couple due process updates: Judge Boasberg’s decision ordering the Trump administration to facilitate the return of some Venezuelan migrants unlawfully deported, and Judge Tim Kelly’s decision in a case about death row prisoners being sent to a “Supermax” prison on the government’s orders without due process, after Biden granted them clemency from the death penalty before leaving office. Further reading: HERE Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

“MS NOW Presents: Clock It” is an invitation to the liveliest and most informed groupchat in your feed. Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels are long-time political powerhouses. And they understand more than most how culture influences politics, and the role politics plays in culture. On “Clock It,” they’re helping you put your finger on the pulse of the hottest political gossip and their off-air conversations too colorful for TV. In the first episode of their new show, “Clock It,” they’re joined by actors Tony Goldwyn and Myles Frost for a conversation about making thought-provoking art when political tensions are at their highest. And they dig in on the Super Bowl halftime show, why cuts to The Washington Post matter for democracy, and the race to the Senate in Texas. Stay here to get a sneak peek. Then search and follow the show to get new episodes every Thursday. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Andrew and Mary are often inundated with news out of the Justice Department, but one item that really caught their attention this week was the DOJ’s appeal to the Supreme Court to toss out Steve Bannon’s contempt conviction. They begin here, highlighting Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche’s wry comments on social media about the case. Next, they turn to a reality hitting prosecutors hard, especially in states ICE is targeting—that the push for mass detentions did not include any plan for the infrastructure needed to support the caseload in the courts or in U.S. Attorneys’ offices. And it's pushing prosecutors to the brink. Mary and Andrew talk about one of them, Julie Le, who was fired after expressing her exasperation in Minnesota. Next, they explain why Congress was given access to the (mostly) un-redacted Epstein files and Ghislaine Maxwell’s choice to plead the 5th in a congressional deposition. And last up, a beat on the Georgia ballot seizures, as Fulton County sues and a judge orders DOJ records to be unsealed in the case. Further Reading: How Congress Can Give Epstein Survivors the Investigation They Deserve, Starting with Compelling Maxwell to Testify Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Symone Sanders Townsend and Eugene Daniels were once at odds as White House staffer and White House reporter. Now they’re friends and colleagues—each co-hosting their own shows at MS NOW. But their off-air conversations are where the real action is. Their new show, “MS NOW Presents: Clock It” is an invitation to their groupchat, the liveliest—and most informative—in news. Whether it’s ICE getting dispatched to the Super Bowl because Bad Bunny’s doing the halftime show, or Nicolás Maduro’s Nike Tech fit, or Michael B. Jordan’s sole Oscar nomination despite playing three roles in Sinners, there is no collision between culture and politics that this show won’t document and decipher. Symone and Eugene see exactly what’s going on—and they want you to clock it, too. New episodes drop every Thursday, starting February 12th. Search for “MS NOW Presents: Clock It” and hit “follow” so you don’t miss an episode. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Heads were turning over the weekend after Chad Mizelle, a former Justice Department official, put out a recruitment call for Trump-loyal Assistant U.S. Attorneys to hit him up on X. Mary and Andrew begin by highlighting the atypical nature of this outreach, while noting how slim the pool of applicants must be for what have long-been highly coveted and competitive positions. This piled on another DOJ fumble after a huge tranche ofEpstein files was released that unintentionally exposed the personal information of numerous victims. The co-hosts then turn to Minnesota, where a decision came in allowing Operation Metro Surge to continue, while another judge admonished DHS for ignoring over 90court orders. Mary and Andrew also call out the arrests of journalists Don Lemon and Georgia Fort during an anti-ICE protest in the state. Plus: a beat on a controversial federal search warrant targeting 2020 ballots in Fulton County, with more to come on that issue. Further reading: Emergency Request for Immediate Judicial Intervention—Epstein Transparency ActWe Were Top Homeland Security Lawyers. You Can’t Wish Away the Fourth Amendment. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Mary and Andrew make Minnesota the focal point this week, after the Trump administration’s intensified immigration enforcement efforts in the state culminated in the tragic killing of Alex Pretti by federal agents on Saturday. The co-hosts detail several legal cases related to these efforts: one that challenges how ICE and CBP agents treat protestors and observers, another that aims to preserve evidence in Mr. Pretti’s death, and a state case arguing that the federal government is violating the 10th Amendment and Minnesota’s sovereignty rights by conducting “Operation Metro Surge”. Then, they turn to what Andrew calls an “extortion letter” sent by Attorney General Pam Bondi to Governor Tim Walz over the weekend, implying that compliance of three demands – including handing over Minnesota’s voter rolls – could lead to a reduction of immigration forces in the state. Before wrapping up, Mary and Andrew review a memo surfaced by a whistleblower giving DHS officers authority to forcibly enter homes during immigration enforcement operations. Further reading: The Top 10 Questions the Trump Administration Needs to Answer About Minnesota. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The former special counsel testified in front of the Republican-led House Judiciary Committee for five hours on Thursday. After the hearing was adjourned – and in between their respective hits for MS NOW’s evening shows – Mary and Andrew shared their takeaways from Smith’s time under questioning. As they note, the representatives who called Smith in often used their allotted 5 minutes to read aloud their own political statements and left him little room to say anything. In his opening statement, Smith took pains to stand up for his staff, some of whom were fired from their public service jobs, some whom have been vilified by the president's supporters, and some threatened. He said they are the best of public servants and our country owes them a debt of gratitude. Over the course of the day, Smith repeatedly told lawmakers that his team had proof that Trump knew his allegations about the election being stolen were false, that he caused the Jan. 6th insurrection and that he exploited subsequent violence. While Smith was testifying, as Mary points out, Trump posted on Truth Social: “Jack Smith is a deranged animal, who shouldn’t be allowed to practice Law. If he were a Republican, his license would be taken away from him, and far worse!” Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Protests continue in Minnesota after the state sued to stop President Trump’s surge of immigration agents to a city still reeling from the death of Renee Good. After mulling where we are one year into this administration, Mary and Andrew zero in on Trump’s revived desire to invoke the Insurrection Act, as Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey become the targets of a federal inquiry. Adding to the tumult, numerous Minnesota prosecutors have quit over the pretense of an investigation into the wife of Renee Good. The co-hosts then turn to Boston, where Judge William Young rebuked government attacks on free speech, outlining an order he’ll issue to restrict deportations of noncitizen scholars. Topping off the episode, Mary and Andrew unpack the alarming FBI raid on a Washington Post reporter's home. Note to listeners: Andrew and Mary will be back later this week to react to former Special Counsel Jack Smith's live testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. Check in Thursday evening to hear their takeaways. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today’s episode begins with the fatal shooting of Renee Good last week at the hands of an ICE officer in Minneapolis. Mary and Andrew break down the frame by frame of the tragedy and its fallout — pointing to the Trump administration’s deflective response, the Civil Rights Division’s decision not to investigate, and the inflammatory language used by the Vice President and Trump himself. Joining the conversation next for a deep dive into Trump’s actions in Venezuela is international law expert Rebecca Ingber, who explains how the incursion has no clear legal justification under international law. Last on the agenda, the co-hosts turn to news out of D.C. where the U.S. Attorney launched a criminal probe into Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, sparking questions about the Fed’s independence and government sanctioned retribution campaigns. A Note: In this episode, Mary and Andrew talk about top DOJ officials quitting over their division’s refusal to investigate the Minnesota shooting. After recording, the New York Times among others reported the following: Six Prosecutors Quit Over Push to Investigate ICE Shooting Victim’s Widow Further Reading: Here is the Federal Reserve’s explanation of the renovations: Federal Reserve’s Renovation of Two Historic Buildings Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Listen to this special invitation from Rachel Maddow and sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to take advantage of a 3-month free trial! With MS NOW Premium, you can get our entire suite of podcasts – everything from “The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell” to “The Best People with Nicolle Wallace” – all ad-free. As a subscriber, you also get early access to select shows, plus exclusive bonus content – like a new episode of “Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order,” out Friday. Sign up right here, then search “Burn Order” to listen to that Premium episode. There’s a lot in store for 2026. So to celebrate the new year, we’re giving away 3 months free if you sign up by the end of January! It’s just $2.99/month or $29.99/year after that. Thanks for listening! Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It’s been five years since rioters stormed the Capitol in one of the most violent events on U.S soil in recent history. To commemorate the day and remind Americans of the consequences that still reverberate around the nation, House Democrats organized a hearing to “to set the record straight on the violent insurrection carried out by supporters of Donald Trump.” In this bonus episode, you’ll hear from Winston Pingeon, a former United States Capitol Police Officer, Brendan Ballou, a former Department of Justice Prosecutor, Pamela Hemphill, a rioter who refused President Trump’s pardon, and Main Justice co-host Mary McCord, the Executive Director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection (ICAP) and Visiting Law Professor at Georgetown. Audio provided by the Office of Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Here is an OpEd on MS Now from Mary that reflects her testimony: Political violence doesn’t always look like Jan. 6 Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Just days into 2026, Mary and Andrew dive into a fresh slate of legal questions brought on by the United States’ surprise extraction of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife to New York to face criminal charges. Unpacking why the operation is widely viewed as illegal in both Venezuela and here at home, they focus on the Trump administration’s pattern of self-excusing questionable tactics under the banner of fighting crime and drug smuggling. Next, as the fifth anniversary of the January 6th insurrection approaches, Mary previews her upcoming testimony in front of House Democrats on the impact the broad swath of pardons for J6 convictions has had, before the co-hosts review Jack Smith’s now public deposition before the House Judiciary Committee. Last, Mary and Andrew turn to the newly unsealed order in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, in which the judge believes DOJ officials may have pushed to prosecute him only after he was wrongly deported to El Salvador. Further reading: HERE,HEREHERE Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.